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Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.23 16:34:00 -
[1]
What a bunch crybaby bs.
Baiting is not a problem. Killmails are not a problem. Everything is working as intended.
PVP in EVE is a team sport.
The art of PVP is getting an enemy to engage you thinking that the terms of battle are favorable to them while in reality those terms are favorable to you.
Bait is just one way of crafting the terms of the engagement in your favor.
As far as killmails go. Those are your resume. They in general show how good you are at PVP. Syre they don't show everything, for instance a good support pilot won't automatically have great stats but competent leaders understand that. But for your general grunt they can give you a quick read on how a pilot might perform. It can also tell you what kind of engagements they've favored it can tell you how they fit and give you some idea on how to educate them.
I find people like the OP really annoying. They can't figure out how to succeed in their chosen playstyle so instead of adapting or simply admitting that they suck they come here and whine to get CCP to change the game to accommodate them.
Learn to craft the field of battle to your favor. learn how to break up the blob, The good soloers do this they spring the trap then use their opponents over eagerness to separate the undisciplined from their blob and kill them while their support is still en-route. Get them to chase you different ships align and warp at different rates not all gangs are made up of pilots of equal skills, A little luck and that single frig will land far enough ahead of his fleet that you can kill him before his buddies catch up. You can double back and get the stragglers.
The problem people like the OP has is that they think PVP is about ship to ship combat when it's really about out thinking your opponent.
The objective isn't just to destroy the enemy ship it's to beat the enemies mind. Not simply out gun them but to out think them.
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Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.23 17:56:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Diesel47
We are talking about lowsec solo pvp, not none of that silly red vs blue garbage.
RVB tends to have the fairly even fights of the type the OP claims to want. But that isn't all we do. Keep thinking that crap though, people who underestimate RVB make for a nice source of juicy killmails.
Tell me other than your misunderstanding of what RVB is, what exactly do you think is wrong with what I said?
I think that you are merely trying to blame your own failings on the system. There are plenty of Pilots who are quite successful using exactly the tactics I outlined.
Hell I never even claimed that I'm a particularly good solo pilot (I'm not I tend to prefer fleet work). But I have used these very tactics before successfully, I've also screwed up and lost ships trying it. You don't see me coming in here and crying that the game is broken when I screw up.
The point is use some imagination craft the terms of the battle in a way that is favorable to you.
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Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.23 19:13:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Sean Faust
<snipped for brevity>
Where do you get this silly idea that Gal ships are built primarily for solo combat? They work much better in small gang settings. Mater are far better suited for solo play which is why most successful solo pilots fly Mater (or Angel stuff which are just juiced up Mater ships)
Not to say that Gal ships couldn't use some help (particularly hybrids) they could but that's a different discussion entirely.
And where in anything I said do you see making split second decisions removed? A good pilot always has to be making split second decisions. And just because one has done a lot of prep work coming up with a good plan doesn't mean that such decision making is removed. The old saw that no plan survives contact with an enemy still applies.
Your best preparations can be undone by unpredicted changes in the battle. You scout misses something you get bogus intel your guys screw up. That kind of crap happens all the time.
In my opinion though the most appealing aspect of PVP in EVE is that it's much more cerebral. That prior preparation does impact the outcome of a battle. That victory/defeat hinges on factors other than twitch and connection speed.
It is a far more dare I say "realistic" model of combat. Rather than a simple FPS where twitch rules, logistics matter, planning matters, social skills matter, leadership matters. The Marines never send out a single grunt to hunt and kill the enemy. The closest they come is a sniper and they work in two man teams with radio's and air/arty support on call.
The combat system in EVE rewards those who play smart. Who build relationships with other players who think ahead and plan. It is also singularly unforgiving towards those who don't.
I mean I get what you are saying, those fights I tend to enjoy the most are the ones that come down to the wire and end with both sides heavily bloodied. and that's a large part of why I'm in RVB we get a higher proportion of those types of fights than most. But I recognize that this is an artificial circumstance that we've created, and that the rest of EVE isn't like that.
It works for us because we've gathered a group of like minded people and built and organization that creates the type of fights we enjoy. But EVE is a sandbox meaning that different people play for different reasons. And I'm not trying to enforce my play style on anyone else.
People like the OP want to change the game to suit their play style rather than adapting to the game.
It's like the guys who join RvB and don't want to do arranged fights then turn around and whine when they get over-shipped. They tend to just be mad that others aren't willing to be their victims.
I mean lets look at baiting the reason it works is because the baited thinks they are getting an easy kill. They think they can win or they'd never engage in the first place. To then turn around and cry because someone else turned the tables on them is just hypocritical.
I see it all the time. Never fails that the guy crying about getting ganked was the same one camping a station popping newbs in frigates with their Ruptures and Canes.
Face it players like the OP are just mad because they can't find easy victims.
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Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.23 19:40:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Joe Skellington
Originally by: Skex Relbore
Originally by: Sean Faust
Mater are far better suited for solo play which is why most successful solo pilots fly Mater (or Angel stuff which are just juiced up Mater ships)
Mater? Is this a new faction? Sorry if that seems rude.
General short hand for Minmatar. Which tend to have the best solo ships because their speed maintains their GTFO capabilities if they bite off more than they can chew.
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Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.23 20:20:00 -
[5]
On the subject of Killmails. I don't actually think they create that much of an incentive to blob. Desire for victory and a aversion to loss are the incentive to blob.
It's interesting that Willl chimes in here since despite all the times he and I have argued with each other on the RVB forums he's one of those guys I'm referring to when I speak of good solo pilots.
I think a note on killmails and killboard stats is that simply looking at a single metric such as K/D doesn't give you a complete picture of a pilots capabilities.
In fact speaking of Willl I think the comparison between he and I actually illustrate the value of killboards (at least BC) in judging a pilots overall performance. Even though the two of us have roughly the same K/D ratio. He's ranked significantly higher than I am.
This is perfectly reasonable I happen to think Willl is a very good pilot he's definitely a better PVP pilot than I am. And it reflects in the board if you look at the comprehensive picture. His points total is much higher because he tends to engage against worst odds and tends to work mostly solo. Where as I do most of my work in small gangs against mostly even odds.
I do think some people do put too much stock in KB stats at the same time I think a lot of people who dismiss them aren't giving them sufficient weight.
Killboards can tell you a lot about a pilot if you understand how to interpret them. Contrary to popular belief the top ranked pilots aren't generally pilots who always blob around in 100 man fleets. Because the value of those kills are so low that it takes a relatively small number of solo and small gang kills to pass them.
Remember a single solo kill against an even classed ship is 20 points on BC compared to less than a point for a SC kill with 50 people on the mail.
So I think that much of the ire towards KB stats is rather misguided. The problem isn't KBs or Killmails but rather how some people use them.
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Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.23 20:28:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Sean Faust
Stuff
1. Actually active usually fails in solo work too. One neut and an active tank is pretty much done. The only real place an active tank serves much purpose is PVE.
2. Gal ships have a tendency to be slow and ponderous and hard to get into range of their damage envelope generally requiring a gang mate to get a point and provide a warp in to be used effectively.
3. As far as the abundance of mids go the only race that Gal tend to have more mids than are Amarr. So this argument is a nonstarter.
I stand by my assertion that Gal are better suited as a small gang race.
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Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.23 21:05:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Sean Faust
Originally by: Skex Relbore
Originally by: Sean Faust
Stuff
1. Actually active usually fails in solo work too. One neut and an active tank is pretty much done. The only real place an active tank serves much purpose is PVE.
2. Gal ships have a tendency to be slow and ponderous and hard to get into range of their damage envelope generally requiring a gang mate to get a point and provide a warp in to be used effectively.
3. As far as the abundance of mids go the only race that Gal tend to have more mids than are Amarr. So this argument is a nonstarter.
I stand by my assertion that Gal are better suited as a small gang race.
1. A Hyperion can, even with one heavy neut on it, effectively run a dual rep tank for a very long time with cap boosters.
2. This wasn't AS much of an issue before the web reduction to 60% webs.
3. The Minmatar and Caldari ships you're referring to that have more mids than Gallente ships are shield tankers that have to devote them to tank, so they can't even be compared.
1. it won't survive long enough even running it.
2. You still had to get close enough to put a web on in the first place and one returned web and well there goes that.
3. The requite web to make a blaster hit and the booster to run the hybrids and tank eat those up anyway.
Also a hype can barely fit electrons in a dual LAR set up which leaves it with anemic dps. Better to stick a shield tank on it and pack the lows with Mag stabs and TE's.
But I do love dual LAR Hypes they make for nice km's for Mr Neut Domi.
The problem with active armor tanks IMO is that they are too grid dependent and take up lows as well as requiring cap on a ship that needs cap to run it's weapons. They also chew up lows which cause a double ding on dps from having to not only give up higher tier guns but also having to forgo damage mods and rigs while providing insufficient regen to stretch their lives out long enough to survive the dps of most of the competition.
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Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.23 21:53:00 -
[8]
I think the argument about killmails misses an important point.
Killmails are not the goal of the killmail *****. Killmails are just the documentation of ones activities success/failures.
Beng mad at the killboards is kind of like being mad at the ruler because you aren't happy with your hight.
Or a stop watch because you can't run a lap faster.
I don't fight because of my killboard I fight because I like fighting. My Killboard just provides me with statistics with which to view my progress as a PVPer.
I think people would blob and gank just as much if Killmails didn't exist. I mean honestly who's impressed with a killmail of someone who ganks a industrial? Yet they are ganked constantly.
A significant part of this game is blowing people up. A lot of people don't really care how they go about it just as long as they get the shinny explosions on their screen.
Hell look at Suddenly Ninja's there's a bunch who seldom kill anything with a point equipped. No real PVPer takes those losers seriously. We know that they are a bunch of wussies who'd run at the first sign of a real fight when we look at their kills and only find one victim in 20 with a point equipped. So obviously they aren't doing it for killmail padding (though I suppose they value the KM's as evidence of the grief they caused. They still aren't doing it for the KM's they're doing it for the grief.
Hell at least the KB's let us know who the blobbers are.
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Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
|
Posted - 2010.12.24 07:52:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Diesel47
Look I'm glad you enjoy your little RvB fleet fights. We are not talking about RvB or anything related to RvB, Ok?
The subject is lowsec pirate bait which discourages solo PvP (Pilots that fly solo).
The OP said it is killing (Or killed) solo pvp, and he is right.
No longer can people look in belts for fights without being blobbed by 10 BCs flown by complete noobs who are able to kill anything because of pure numbers. Face it, PPPvP is not fun. Take all that "art of baiting" and other crap out of here. If these guys had the balls or skills to fight fair fights they would. But since they can't, they rely on huge fleets to gain their pathetic killmails.
I don't know why you guys keep talking about RvB, and "I like to play with my friends"
If you've EVER been in lowsec looking for PvP, you'd know that every 3 systems down there is a blob roaming around looking for risk-free kills, purely for the purpose of padding their killboard. This only gets worse in nullsec.
So basically what I'm proposing is that blobbing should be seen with a very negative light so some of the blobbers actually learn how to fight by themselves.
PS: Your post seems like just a huge advertisement for RvB, which is lame.
You're the one who brought up RVB not me.
That you fail at grasping the basic mechanics of the game is not a low sec issue. What, you think baiting is a new tactic or something?
What should an opponent hold back part of their force to make things more "fair".
"hey guys there are only 4 of them so Knucklehead Dillweed and Numbskull with me everyone else go carebear or something"
Yeah right I see that happening.
If I'm running a fleet and a solo pilot who's a valid target flies by I'm going to kill him if I can. If I catch him it's his fault for being there in the first place. If he has backup coming up behind and they catch me well that's my fault for not paying attention to the overall situation.
If I'm solo and I see a valid target who I think I can take out before his backup can arrive I'll try and kill him. if backup shows up and I lose a ship. well that's the way the game works I'll toss a GF in local and concentrate on getting my pod out.
Learning to recognize and deal with bait is a part of the game. And no it's not killing solo PVP. Solo PVP in this game is hard mode. The game mechanics are built around the idea that it's team PVP. That's why there isn't a single ship that can counter every situation.
You are expected to work with others to get the job done. That's not to say that it's not possible to solo and there are plenty of pilots like Willl who do quite well at it. But it takes very good player skills and lots of experience at learning to judge what fights they have a reasonable chance of winning and which should be avoided.
That's a part of PVP in EVE. Crying that people don't follow your code of E-bushido is only going to get you laughed at in this game.
You are failing at PVP not because the system is flawed nor because other peoples play styles are flawed but because instead of learning the system and adapting to it you keep trying to play this like it's some sort of fantasy MMO arena PVP.
The reason people blob and gank and take every advantage they can get is because PVP in this game has consequences whether it's loss of sov or loss of industrial resources or just the loss of your ship those losses take either time(carebearing) or money(plex) to recover from. Those consequences are why people in EVE tend to treat PVP more like a war than a FPS.
The only way you could really discourage "blobbing" would be to remove the consequences. But then EVE would cease to be EVE. It would just be another consensual arena PVP game.
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Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.25 00:55:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Skex Relbore on 25/12/2010 00:56:48
Originally by: Space Pinata
Edited by: Space Pinata on 25/12/2010 00:25:41
As expected, lots of 'of course it's true' and 'you're wrong'.
Not a shred of proof.
Sorry to shatter your illusions, but, two ships locked in a 1v1 have nothing to do with tactics.
It could be a gank, in which case, the only thing that matters is getting a point. One ship is obviously superior, and thus wins.
It could be a trap, IE 'mission domi' with neuts.
It could be 'fair'.
In any case, once you engage, it's all down to stats. No target calling, no jamming priorities, no baiting ships away, no remote assistance, nothing.
Just hit F1, turn your tank on, and wait.
Or do you really think "FLY CLOSER" or "FLY PARALLEL" or "OVERLOAD RACK AND MWD AWAY" count as 'skills'?
Face it. EVE is a strategic game, not an RPG. It's like taking two single Warhammer models and having them 'duel'. Without the strategic/tactical considerations, you're just letting stats and Random Number God dictate the winner.
At that point? It's not a game anymore. Sorry if you thought you were somehow holy for trying to solo.
Knowing when to fly closer further parallel when to overload when to stop overloading when go for the kill and when to leg it are skills. Oh and yes there is skill to keeping at the proper range. Some ships are dangerous if you can keep the target between 11k and 20k but implode if breathed on hard inside that 11k.
Knowing what fights you can win and which should be avoided are skills.
You talk like someone who's only read about EVE PVP (and not the good stuff either.)
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Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.26 15:41:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Space Pinata
More nonsense
First there is an old saying. "I'd rather be lucky than good" in your little anecdote you're opponent on top of being in a better ship also got lucky. It happens. It was a long shot engagement for you in the first place and skill or no skill you were going to need a little luck to take a Vaga out with your rupture. Of course if you'd had your own ECM drones the situation could have easily played out the other way.
Yes there are a huge number of factors that come into play beyond skill. But to claim skill isn't a factor is simply ludicrous. There are pilots with better ships and more SP getting their asses kicked all the time because they lack these basic skills.
Here you are making all sorts of insane claims. Maybe you are some sort of EVE combat prodigy who understood all possible maneuvers and tactics instantly. But we don't know because you post using an alt so we have no way to judge whether you are actually any good at PVP or not. (btw its tactics not strategy, way to remember the difference is tactics is what you use to win battles, Strategy is using battles to win a war)
I'm a pretty good PVP pilot. I'm good enough to know I'm not a great pilot. I've flown with and against guys who prove everything you claim wrong. Plus there are a lot of really bad pilots out there. Guys who have no clue on how to fit an effective ship and even if they manage to fit one up decently still don't know how to use it effectively.
If what you said were true those bad pilots would have just as much a likely hood of winning against the good ones as anyone else. But they don't. They get their asses kicked.
And while it's true that skill is only one factor in who wins a fight. After all a rifter will generally die against any Vexor that can launch a full flight of Warrior II's, All those skills you claim don't exist will make the difference between two other opponents who are otherwise equal.
Now understand I don't subscribe to this e-bushido nonsense of tying my hands behind my back to give someone a fair fight. Outside of our little RVB arranged battles I will use every resource at my disposal to destroy my enemy's ships.
But to claim that there is no skill involved? I mean come on you really think that two fleets meet and one just randomly shoots **** while the other uses focused fire staying on the proper primary that that won't affect the outcome of a battle?
Hell just choosing the wrong primary can make the difference between victory and defeat. Wasting ammo on a drake when there is a perfectly good Cane or Brutix to shoot at, ignoring an ECM ship in favor of dps ships.
Sure the vast majority of the factors that determine the outcome of a battle in EVE take place outside the actual moment of engagement. But that remaining 10% is what separates the great pilots from the soso and the bad.
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Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.26 18:07:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Originally by: Merdaneth
Originally by: Cipher Jones
Solo PvP is 100% based on bullying.
Read Sun Tzu. No-one is looking for a "fair fight".
EVE is a game, Sun Tzu doesn't apply.
Would you intimidate your little brother and steal fake money to win at monopoly? Only play when your fellow players are tired. Use weighted dice? Wars are fought out of neccessity, games are played for fun.
I got news but internet spaceships are srsbsns to a lot of people including myself. My point proves itself. If people weren't looking for a fight that was to their advantage there wouldn't be any threads complaining about the lack of readily available PvP.
That's why the trick is to make someone think that they are looking at a fight that is to their advantage. Ergo baiting.
In the end the OP is whining that he can't be certain that the fight that he can see and can win is the fight that is really being offered.
I say tough that's the way game works and a large part of the fun to begin with.
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Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.27 14:54:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Skex Relbore on 27/12/2010 14:55:33
Originally by: Drakarin
Originally by: Space Pinata
Originally by: Drakarin
A planned and coordinated fight is not fun. It's by design used to effectively win at all costs. There is no mystery or luck involved. It's all predetermined and even a 1,000 vs 1,000 fight is a snore fest because a really smart person could know exactly who would win just by knowing what ships are showing up. (And who pilots them).
This is not real life. Fighting in real life is NOT fun. It's brutal. We fight for a specific reason, in EvE, we fight simply to fight. It shouldn't be just about winning, that turns it into a tedious predictable job.
Depends.
Some of us play for the strategy and 'thinking man' elements of the game.
All the people who play like bloodthirsty grunts amuse me.
There is no luck factor though, or player skill that comes into play. That makes the combat itself less fun than planning it.
Luck is always a factor.
Skill is always a factor.
Yes advanced planning is important but it's not the only factor that decides the outcome of a given battle.
The individual mechanics may be relatively easy to master but then again so are the mechanics of chess matches do not end in draws because the vast range of player "skill" in applying those mechanics.
This is why I say Space Pinata talks like someone who's only read about PVP. Because a plan never survives first contact with an enemy. Because people panic they get caught up in the heat of the moment and make mistakes.
Now don't get me wrong I don't believe in "fair" fights. In fact I always emphasis that what we strive for in RVB are "even" meaning each side will have equivalent numbers are ship classes. It's never completely fair because different pilots have different SP some have better fits some have more money for better fits some fail fit and some have more experience (read player skills).
Don't believe me that skill exists. Take 2 people one a hardened PVP player and a newb. Now give the newb a 100mil sp character and the Vet a character with the minimum skills for the fit. Give both characters identical ships and see who wins.
Then repeat that experiment 10 times. If skill weren't a factor then newb player with the high sp toon should win the majority of the time. But we all know that's not how it's going to work out.
Because skill is a factor. It's not the only factor sure but it is a factor. To claim otherwise is pure foolishness. Because no matter how perfect Space Pinata is most players aren't.
Sure as the size of engagements scale up individual pilot skill becomes less and less a factor outside of specific roles. But in small gang and solo work individual pilot skills are an important factor in determining the outcome of a battle.
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Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.27 15:08:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Space Pinata
Name something you do in PVP that you couldn't learn from reading it in a thread.
This is what makes me think you have no actual PVP experience.
Because there is a world of difference between knowing what to do and actually doing it at the proper time while under pressure.
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Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.27 15:29:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Space Pinata
Originally by: Skex Relbore
Originally by: Space Pinata
Name something you do in PVP that you couldn't learn from reading it in a thread.
This is what makes me think you have no actual PVP experience.
Because there is a world of difference between knowing what to do and actually doing it at the proper time while under pressure.
So is the entire skillset of EVE "Don't get scared by the videogame"?
The ONLY skill is not panicking?
Once again spoken like someone who's only read about PVP.
Yeah I had the shakes the first time I PVP'd in EVE. I wasn't scared duh I knew I was sitting safe in my chair at home but I still got the adrenal rush and the tunnel vision and forgot pretty much everything I'd read about PVP up until then.
And yeah not panicking is a very important skill in EVE. It's call immersion getting caught up in the moment. It's the reason why people watch and enjoy horror movies.
Of course that wasn't what I meant.
Knowing what to do and actually doing it at the right time are different things.
You are like an arm chair quarter back sitting in your recliner watching your big screen overhead view of a game and calling the quarterback an idiot because he didn't see an open receiver. He didn't see the open receiver that was so obvious to you because he had several 300lb linemen trying to take his head off and he was looking from ground level.
This difference of knowing when to apply certain knowledge in this game is a huge factor in victory and defeat. It is the difference between the crappy pilots and the good ones.
I know this because I've been on both sides of that equation. I've had that "Oh snap that's what I should have done" moment after losing a fight and I've been able to take advantage of others mistakes to gain victory.
Not everyone is a perfect player who always does the right thing and has read every PVP guide written and as such knows every ships strengths weaknesses and counters.
Even if you were that type of player who is so perfect if you actually had any real combat experience you'd know that most aren't. And that difference is what we call skill. Skill is not just the physical ability to do a thing or even the mental knowledge of how to do it. But it is the ability to do both the former at the right time under the right circumstances.
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Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.27 16:11:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Space Pinata
Space Pinata admits being mistaken without realizing it.
Here is my definition of skill
"A skill is the learned capacity to carry out pre-determined results often with the minimum outlay of time, energy, or both. "
thanks Wiki.
Now I don't know what definition you are using but what you just described in your posts was applying skill to influence the outcome of of a battle.
As far as nervousness I've been through hundreds of combat engagements in EVE I'm well beyond combat shakes. Doesn't change the fact that not everyone is. And all these guys who only get into ship to ship combat every couple weeks aren't going to get so blasT about it.
Once again if you are such a PVP badass post with your main. Show some evidence that you aren't just talking ****.
Because right now all I see is a random forum alt making silly claims.
You claim that skill doesn't matter in solo combat, Yet I can point you to Willl Adama's killboard and point you to victories he got that you claim couldn't happen because his opponent had a superior ship and or more SP.
You can claim all you want that the various things you can do in EVE are simple. There are only 6 different pieces which means 6 basic maneuvers yet the difference in skill between a beginner and a grand master is huge.
Oh yeah and you can push your ship beyond it's stats it's called Thermodynamics and knowing when and how long to use it is one of those Skills we're talking about.
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Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.27 16:23:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Merdaneth
Originally by: Space Pinata
In other words: I didn't notice myself or my corp-mates as particularly amazing, but I noticed a -lot- of people were terrible.
Well, if you are able to apply the skill and notice that a lot of other people aren't, then you are a skillfill person by definition. I'm quite sure that to a talented football player some skills are also something he picked up easily and playfully, skills I might never be able to master even when training hard. The ease of picking up a skill for oneself personally doesn't make the it less of a skill. Its not your own sense of ease of acquisition what makes you skillfull, its comparing yours with others.
What I find amusing is that while claiming that skill doesn't matter Space Pinata is simultaneously claiming how uber-skilled they are compared to all the rest of us losers.
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Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.27 17:01:00 -
[18]
You do realize that's how every contest works right?
The winner is usually the one who screws up the least at the inopportune times. In fact if you really get down to it. Skill is not screwing up.
Whether you are talking sports cars or cards or internet spaceship combat, or for that matter actual war.
The best players in any activity are those who screw up the least and take the right action the most.
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Skex Relbore
Gallente
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.27 17:52:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Luminos
Originally by: Skex Relbore
What I find amusing is that while claiming that skill doesn't matter Space Pinata is simultaneously claiming how uber-skilled they are compared to all the rest of us losers.
I'm sorry, but there's something amusing and slightly ironic about the RvB propaganda guy talking about the 'unskilled masses'. 
I mean, I'm sure you've never had one of your new recruits ask you if it's better to put a bunch of reactor controls on their Dessie so they can fit a single Cruiser sized weapon. Or hit the field with 200mm Plate, a Small Extender, and a Shield Boost Amp without an actual Booster. Nor have any of them decided that since their Kestrel has a 30km range on it's missles that it's best to engage from a range they can't keep a point on their opponent from.
There is a difference between 'skilled' and 'minimally competent', and I dare say that a lot of the people out there are barely competent at PvP. But that's a question of definition then: when does something stop being a minimum requirement, and start being an advanced skill? Is it something that can't be taught on the boards? Something that takes more than 10 minutes to figure out on your own? Is spamming D-Scan a skill? Having a properly set up overview? Grouping your guns? Where do you draw the line Skex?
WTF are you talking about?
I'm not the one claiming that Skill doesn't matter in PVP.
Seriously what's wrong? someone in RVB touch you in your special place or something?
Yeah I do RVB because it's fun to be able to log in and get into some combat without having to cruise around for hours looking for my fun.
I started because I wanted to get some PVP experience I stuck around because I got roped into a leadership position and it's fun.
That has exactly ZERO FRIGGIN relevance to this thread and my position on it.
Yeah I'm the "RvB Propaganda guy" at least I'm not a too much of a coward to post with my main. I'm an open friggin book. Anyone can go to Battleclinic and see my entire combat history all the way back to my early lolfits (as well as some of my more recent ones)
I don't hide behind a forum alt and I don't cower from anyone. I've fought some of the best pilots in this game including 2 of the current top 10.
As to the kind of nonsense I see people fitting. Geeze you do realize that RVB being rather noob friendly means it gets a lot of friggin noobs right? Oh the comedy fits I've seen.
I measure skill as a continuum from clueless to badass. Which is why skill is and always will be a factor in PVP. Because some people are more skilled than others and it does make a difference.
As to where I draw the line I don't. There is no line every aspect of the game is a part of your skillset. From properly setting your overview to planning out your skill plan to fitting your ship on to knowing when and how to actually fly it.
This is why such silly statements as "Skill doesn't matter" are so silly in the first place.
Let me make my position perfectly clear.
I think the OP is a whinny little ***** who needs to HTFU. Baiting is a valid tactic and isn't killing solo PVP. The basic fact that bringing more guys is the ultimate force multiplier is what harms solo PVP that and the fact that it's a MMO.
I think killmails and killboards are just fine and generally the people who whine about them are just the ones who suck at PVP and don't want to have their failure broadcast to the universe which I find odd because they are a great tool for learning not to suck. after all almost all of us sucked when we first started.
Finally skill does matter in determining the outcome of an encounter. Then again so is ship fittings and numbers and luck and who has the biggest cap fleet waiting to Cyno in.
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